The legality of "rave" samples

[tresf]

Quoting DmitryLeon2000 at the forums: https://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29986

I just pointed out that some samples in LMMS are identical to those in Rave eJay.

Bass: roots 3 -> bassloopes/rave_bass01.ogg
Bass: clear two + off -> bassloopes/rave_bass02.ogg
Drum: hihat gold 3 -> beats/rave_hihat01.ogg
Drum: hihat smooth 4 -> beats/rave_hihat02.ogg
Drum: kick D groove 1 -> beats/rave_kick01.ogg
Drum: kick C groove 1 -> beats/rave_kick02.ogg
Drum: snare hype 1 -> beats/rave_snare01.ogg

In addition to these samples being made available with the Rave eJay software, they're also available on a samples CD which was sold in Germany in the late 90s:

CD Cover:

Besides the claims that the sounds are identical, the origin (and thus license) is of concern, since the license it was obtained is more important than the license in which it was found (due to complexities with relicensing) but the evidence that these samples were part of a commercial software product called "Rave eJay" and all contain the word "rave" in their name is quite suggestive.

Fedora takes this a step further: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/lmms/blob/rawhide/f/README.fedora

Click to show list

For legal reasons, the following files have been removed from the
lmms/data/projects/demos/Alf42red-Mauiwowi.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/AngryLlama-NewFangled.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Ashore.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/CapDan/CapDan-ReggaeTry.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/CapDan/CapDan-ReggaetonTry.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/CapDan/CapDan-TwilightArea-OriginalByAlf42red.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/CapDan/CapDan-ZeroSumGame-OriginalByZakarra.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/DnB.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/EsoXLB-CPU.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Farbro-Tectonic.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Greippi - Krem Kaakkuja (Second Flight Remix).mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Impulslogik-Zen.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Jousboxx-BuzzerBeater.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Momo64-esp.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Namitryus-K-Project.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Oglsdl-Dr8v2.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Oglsdl-PpTrip.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Popsip-Electric Dancer.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Root84-Initialize.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Saber-FinalStep.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Settel-InnerRecreation.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Shovon-ProgressiveHousePluckDemo.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Skiessi/Skiessi-C64.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Skiessi/Skiessi-Onion.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Skiessi/Skiessi-RandomProjectNumber14253.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Skiessi/Skiessi-TurningPoint.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Socceroos-Progress.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/StrictProduction-DearJonDoe.mmp
lmms/data/projects/demos/TameAnderson-MakeMe.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Thaledric-Armageddon.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/Thomasso-AxeFromThe80s.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/TobyDox-Psycho.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/demos/unfa-Spoken.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/shorties/Crunk(Demo).mmp
lmms/data/projects/shorties/DirtyLove.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/shorties/Greshz-CoolSnip.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/shorties/Root84-TrancyLoop.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/shorties/Skiessi-222.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/shorties/Surrender-Main.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/shorties/sv-DnB-Startup.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/shorties/sv-Trance-Startup.mmpz
lmms/data/projects/tutorials/editing_note_volumes.mmp
lmms/data/samples/basses/bass01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_acid01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_acid02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_hard01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_hard02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_punch01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/horror_bass01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/matrix1000_pluck01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/rave_bass01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/rave_bass02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/rave_bass03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/rave_bass04.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/synth_acid01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/synth_acid02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/basses/techno_synth01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/briff01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/rave_bass01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/rave_bass02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/tb303_01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_bass01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_bass02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_synth01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_synth02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_synth03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_synth04.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/909beat01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/break01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/break02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/break03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/electro_beat01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/electro_beat02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/house_loop01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/jungle01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_hihat01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_hihat02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_kick01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_kick02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_snare01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum04.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum_acoustic01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum_acoustic02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/clap01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/clap02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/clap03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/clap04.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/clav01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/clav02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/crash01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/crash02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed04.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed05.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_foot_pedal01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_opened01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_opened02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_opened03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick04.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_distorted01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_hard01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_hardcore01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_hiphop01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_long01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_soft01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_soft02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/nasty_bass01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/nasty_rim01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/nasty_snare01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/ride01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/ride02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/rim01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/shaker01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/shaker02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/shaker03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/sidestick01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare04.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare05.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare06.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare07.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_acoustic01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_electro01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_harsh01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_hiphop01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_hiphop02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_muffled01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_muffled02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_rim01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_short01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/tom01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/tom02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/tom03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/tom04.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/tom05.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/tom_hi01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/tom_low01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/tom_mid01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/wood01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/zap01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/zap02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/drums/zap03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/chroma_sound_effect01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/explode01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/filter_sweep01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/scratch01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/start01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/start02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/stop01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/warp01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/warp02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/effects/wind_chimes01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/bassslap01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/bassslap02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/cello01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/church_organ01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/church_organ02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/church_organ03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/church_organ04.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/e_organ01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/e_piano_accord01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/e_piano_accord02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/flute01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/harpsichord01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/piano01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/piano02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/steel_guitar01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/steel_guitar_heavy_distorted01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/steel_guitar_medium_distorted01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/steel_guitar_slight_distorted01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/trumpet01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/violin_double_stop01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/violin_fingered01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/instruments/violin_pizzicato01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/latin/latin_brass01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/latin/latin_guitar01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/latin/latin_guitar02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/latin/latin_guitar03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/applause01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/bass!.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/breath01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/buzz!.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/dong01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/dong02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/dong03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/electric_ping01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/hit01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/hit02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/metalish_dong01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/metronome01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/metronome02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/raving_crowd01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/snaph01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/misc/undefined01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/shapes/additive.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/additive2.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist2.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist3.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist4.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist5.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist6.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist7.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist8.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist9.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/harmonics.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/low_sine.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/micro.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/moog.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/roundbass.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/roundsaw.ogg
lmms/data/samples/shapes/saw+sine.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/sine_dist.ogg
lmms/data/samples/shapes/smooth_inv_saw.ogg
lmms/data/samples/shapes/smooth_inv_saw2.ogg
lmms/data/samples/shapes/smooth_inv_saw_dist.ogg
lmms/data/samples/shapes/technobass.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth1.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth2.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth3.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth4.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth5.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth6.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/vowel_a.wav
lmms/data/samples/shapes/vowel_u.wav
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/bell_choir01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/bell_choir02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/chorus01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/chorus02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/heaven_strings01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/juno_pad01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/korg_poly6_drone01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/nord_ambient01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/orion_string01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/rave_choir01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/space_strings01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/space_strings02.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/space_strings03.ogg
lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/strings01.ogg
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/10saw.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/10sine.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/10sqr.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/10tri.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/analogsqr.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/fmsaw1.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/fmsine.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/fmsine2.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/halfsine.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/impulse.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_quarter.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_sawdecay_quarter.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_sinedecay_quarter.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_triplet_half.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_triplet_half_2.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_triplet_quarter.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_whole.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_whole_2.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/modsqr.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/saw1.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/saw2.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/sinesaw.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_addsyn.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_angrysaw.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_hexagon.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_invsine.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_invsineabs.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_invsinehalf.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_noisy.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_rad.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_sawsine.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_sharp.flac
lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_w-wave.flac
lmms/tests/emptyproject.mmp

The 90's timing of this, the German origins inspired me to ask the original author of LMMS, Tobias Junghans (formerly Tobias Doerffel). This is our email exchange:

Fri, Mar 15, 2019, 3:46 PM EST
Hi, [Toby] I hope all is well!

Some distros are blacklisting the rave_bass01.ogg and friends stating they're not legally cleared. I did some research and found out that there was a sample CD sold predominantly in Germany by Marc Gminder containing these samples and wanted to find out your memory of it, or if you -- by chance -- still had this 20+ year old CD laying around so we could document it properly. :)

We have an ongoing effort to redo the samples with clear CC0 on each, but there's only so much time in the day. :)

If we can find some background info and/or evidence that these samples have a license that allows re-use we can add it to the software until we finish the cleanup. If not, we'll probably jump on the Fedora bandwagon and just remove them.
[...]

Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 11:20 AM EST
Hi Tres,

unfortunately I don't remember where I took the samples from, likely extracted
from some old songs from the 90th. So you'd better drop it and/or replace it
appropriately.

Although this project aims to fix these types of mistakes, I wanted to document this all in once place as the internet has a way of losing track of information. If more information (or permission from the current copyright holders) surfaces, please post it here to keep it in a centralized place.

[tresf]

Slight update on this...

August 4, 2022: I did reach out to the author of the "Rave" samples, Marc Gminder, and he has shared interest in clearing LMMS' use of these samples.

Quoting Marc:

"please give me a view days to clarify. I do not think we’ll have a copyright issue. I’m quite curious to install the software… Will get back to you"

I am reaching out again now to check up on this request.

[tresf]

Marc says we can use them. I'm just trying to lock down a specific license.