[CNCF TOC] TAG Reboot: Restructuring the Technical Advisory Groups to scale for the next 10 years in Cloud Native

[angellk]

Update: TAG Reboot Presentation

The CNCF has grown exponentially in number of projects, community members and end user adoption. The TAGs have not been able to scale to meet the technical demand required of the TOC.

Over the last two years there have been a number of conversations and proposals broaching this topic collectively with TAG leadership and the CNCF community. At KubeCon + CloudNativeCon NA in Salt Lake City, the TOC shared an initial TAG Reboot proposal with the TAG leads. TOC Liaisons worked with corresponding TAG Chairs and Leads to collect open feedback and comments in the TOC+TAG meeting issue.

On February 4, the TOC will be presenting the new TAG structure (which the TOC will be voting on) which incorporates all TAG community feedback - this issue will be used to track implementation questions.

Why is the TOC Rebooting the TAGs?

TAGs today are unhealthy due to a number of factors:

• Loss of representative domain experts
• Various TAG leadership burnout
• Lack of TAG leadership onboarding
• Various TAGs performing out of scope work
• Lack of specific asks from the TOC
• TAGs burdened with operational overhead
• Project presentations being the sole focus of community meetings for some TAGs
• Lack of consistent oversight over Working Groups and ongoing TAG work

The TOC initially approved the formation of the TAGs in order to:

• Scale the TOC’s technical leadership
• Provide expert guidance to end users using specific projects
• Identify technology gaps in the ecosystem

Note: The TAG charter and guidance will be updated and clarified during this TAG Reboot.

What is the TAG Reboot going to do?

Restructure the TAGs

• Consolidate the number of TAGs from 8 to 5
• Transition existing working group efforts to the new structure and operating model after alignment evaluation (reference application further below)

Introduce Subprojects and Initiatives

• Alignment with K8s working group concept and homing working groups to exist at the TOC level, not under TAGs
• Previous Working Group may apply to be a new Subproject or Initiative in a TAG, pending TOC approval
• Any new Working Group is a TOC-led function

Move all project presentations and reviews to a dedicated group reporting to the TOC and representative of all TAGs

• Focus on a global cloud native view that provides the greatest collaborative impact

Re-focus TAG work to be in line with TOC requirements:

• Focus on projects and technical objectives
• Focus on TOC requests
• Provide pathways for community and TAG focuses to be appropriately supported via TOC requests

Clean up all TAG websites and repos

• Align TAG repos, websites, collateral to new rebooted structure
• Provide redirects so community members can locate previous artifacts

What components does the new structure have?

Technical Advisory Groups (TAG)

• Primary organizational unit that is aligned with an industry problem domain or a group that serves a common need across TAGs & CNCF Projects.
• Characteristics: long-lived, has leads, defined charter, provides services to the projects, other TAGs, or the TOC, and reports to the TOC.

Working Group

• A cross domain, time bound or goal focused group that has an explicit deliverable.
• Characteristics: short-lived, objective focused, has leads, reports to the TOC, has a defined charter & exit criteria.

Subproject

• An ongoing or “permanent” project as part of a TAG, or under the TOC directly.
• Characteristics: long-lived, has leads, service or thing that requires ongoing stewardship, has charter that defines scope, reports to parent group (TAG or TOC)

Initiative

• A lightweight organizational unit used for TOC-led Subproject or TAG local, short term or finite work.
• Characteristics: short-lived, objective focused, led and reported on by Technical Lead, reports to parent group, has a very narrow defined scope.

Community Group

• A topic or domain focused group used to serve as a rallying point for community members to discuss, share knowledge, and coordinate potential future initiatives.
• Characteristics: no leadership, similar to a BoF or discussion group.

When will the TAG Reboot changes happen?

• Maintainer Summit at KubeCon London will have:
  • a TAG Reboot workshop that will allow community members to generate initiative ideas
  • a Project Reviews workshop that will be recorded
• New leadership will be implemented after KubeCon so any gaps may be recruited at Maintainer Summit and KubeCon proper
• Any TAG maintainer track talks accepted are asked to review the new TAG structure and guidelines and incorporate appropriate content to inform attendees of upcoming changes
• Any sessions that reference TAG working items are asked to review the new TAG structure and guidelines to ensure continuation of work as appropriate in the new structure.

[TheFoxAtWork]

Notes from the TOC TAG Reboot Discussion on Tuesday February 4th 2025:

General notes/overview

Karena presented the reasons for a tag reboot, highlighting the growth and change in domain expertise over the last years since the creation of the SIGs/TAGs in 2019. The goal is also to prepare for the next 10 years in cloud native.

Karena added these changes will be implemented after kubecon london, following a workshop to happen during the maintainer summit.

Karena then continued introducing the different groups, starting with examples of initiatives in the area of AI. She also introduced the new Project Reviews Subproject. Bob added one of the goals is to expand the number of experts attending the project presentations. Karena mentioned project review presentations will not be mandatory and that the LF team will help out with the logistics.

Next Karena introduced the new contributor strategy subproject. Josh asked if TAG-CS was being dissolved. Karena and Bob explained the goal is to move this up to the TOC. Josh raised concerns this had not been communicated to the TAG-CS leadership. Karena added it’s expected concerns will be raised and they can be discussed offline.

Karena introduced the new TAG structure and then the roles of Chair, Tech Lead and Subproject Lead.

Questions from the call:

Structure:

Q: would all subprojects and initiatives run by a TAG need TOC approval?
A: During our bootstrapping, yes but not as a formal vote. We intend to relax the approval and provide better clarity as we practice this new process, however to ensure we're all aware of what is going on we want to leverage these approvals to keep awareness, consistency, and escalate necessary changes to ensure we're agile and efficient.

Q: Working Groups need to apply? When? from now on?
A: For bootstrapping, working groups would need to reapply as an initiative (short lived and focused) or a subproject (longstanding). Once we're further along, we anticipate TAGs to self-manage. At the TOC level, there will still need to be a formal application.

Q: TAG-CS has multiple WGs that would be subprojects … where do those go?
A: most will be community groups, others initiatives.

Q: So you're dissolving TAG CS?
A: No, there are several working groups under TAG CS that will move to community groups. The work TAG CS does is important, as such, the core functions are to be lifted to the TOC level to ensure they are properly supported, with engagement by other TAG leaders.

Q: Are community groups distinct from End User groups? Are existing community groups impacted?
A: Community groups are separate and distinct from End User groups. The existing community groups are NOT impacted by these changes. For community members that leverage the TAG as a forum for community discussion for common topics that are not performing TOC directed or TAG Chartered work, those focuses would move to a community group as these have less overhead and no deliverables.

TAGs:

Q: DevEx interfaces with everything… why are databases/messages buses under DevEx? … (Alex had to leave before we came to this question, worth following it up)
A: to be provided.

Q: Difference between TAG-CS and DevX?
A: Contributor strategy: project submits a question on how to community build or something else. TAG Dev Exp works on technical specifics and best practices

Q: TAG-Infrastructure is missing bare-metal.
A: Karena: somehow this disappeared, re-adding.

Process/governance

Q: Will leadership need to reapply after kubecon? What’s the process?
A: Emily: No answer yet, we will try to honor as much as possible the recent elections/nominations, give existing chairs with long terms a chance to step back but also guarantee continuity. We need define this process, there are several leaders who were recently elected into their role, and we wish to retain existing experience in TAG Leadership while providing opportunities for others to step forward or withdraw from their roles.

Q: Worries about the larger size and scope of the new TAGs?
A: Karena explained this was discussed extensively and the goal is to have larger discussion forums to get more momentum in the TAGs. Marlow added that her worry is that we might not be able to keep the passion that people have right now, giving TAG-Env as an example. Emily added it is understood that this can create confusion but the goal is to formalize better these initiatives and subprojects. The large scope provides opportunity for interoperability and broader awareness.

Q: Can we please add something to add in community groups to help with pipelines to technical groups? Often people show up because they are passionate about a space, and having a clear pipeline would be helpful. Would be nice to be able to have those of us not making Europe to be able to dial in remotely and have a chat channel so we can add in content
A: Yes - thank you for suggesting this, we will ensure the new structure provides that pipeline.

Q: I am wondering if we shift more work to the TOC with the subprojects or if the new structure is just more explicit
A: It shifts more of the operational/overhead to the TOC to allow engaged community members to meaningful contribute and advance these subprojects, while ensuring the TOC is fully informed on what work is happening so we may step in to assist or to bring the project to closure (if it warrants it).

Path Forward

Q: Ton of info being presented… worth scheduling another meeting after?
A: as the TOC prepares material for this change to instantiate a vote, we will keep the TAGs informed.

Q: We lost the TAG/Chairs reports on the first tuesday… should we try to get them back?
A: We need to ensure its sustainable and engaging, in prior iterations we occasionally lacked TAGs preparedness, availability, and consistency in presented material. We're looking at how that may addressed so we can ensure we maintain that community heartbeat.

Q: Will there be remote/virtual attendance for the maintainer summit for people that cannot make the maintainer summit?
A: due to logistical costs, we cannot provide virtual/remote attendance for the maintainer summit. however we will work to provide a separate mechanism to ensure community members that cannot attend will have the same opportunity to receive information and engage in a discussion. We will also reuse the tag-chairs channel for discussions async. This discussion needs to stay inclusive, so the TOC will ensure this remains the case

Q: What’s the rough timeline for implementation?
A: We are working to provide process/structure information between now and after kubecon, with post-kubecon being where this is implemented. We have a lot to do between now and then and we appreciate the questions so we can create our list of work to execute for this to be set up.

Q: Will the TOC provide material to assist TAG Chairs and leaders with community messaging?
A: Yes we will provide this, either as questions and answers on this issue or through slide deck that was presented. As more information becomes available we will ensure the TAGs are informed. If TAGs have questions please reach out to your Liaisons, if they are unresponsive, please contact CNCF staff and the TOC chair.

Actions taken by the TOC:

• ACTION (TOC): To clarify the approval process for Initiatives and Subprojects
• ACTION (TOC): Establish a dedicated session to follow after the maintainer summit for individuals unable to attend.
• ACTION (TOC): clarify the process for leadership roles
• ACTION (TOC): Liaisons will reach out to TAGs to assist and support in aligning the new structure with activities and efforts underway with the TAGs.