Why ThreadX entry function use ULONG as entry input instead of a void *?

[parmi93]

UINT tx_thread_create(TX_THREAD *thread_ptr, CHAR *name_ptr, 
                      VOID (*entry_function)(ULONG), ULONG entry_input, 
                      VOID *stack_start, ULONG stack_size, UINT priority,
                      UINT preempt_threshold, ULONG time_slice, 
                      UINT auto_start)

Documentation

If I need to pass more than one parameter to the entry_function I must necessarily use a void *, hence my question, why ThreadX uses a ULONG instead of a void * like FreeRTOS does?

[MaJerle]

It could be because of certification reasons, to avoid using void* types.
If your system is 32-bit, then pointer size will be 32-bits, which will fit the ULONG.

You can therefore use the casting, or pass the index, and retrieve the parameter via other API function passing index to it.

[parmi93]

This explanation doesn't convince me.
If they wanted to avoid using void * types for certification reasons, why did they use VOID * type for the next param stack_start?

[MaJerle]

In fact you are right. Then it might be "legacy".

There are other details to challenge too, such as missing const keyword for thread name. Ive asked for an update in the past, they claimed we need to keep no const for legacy. Clearly unjustified reason as ut would not break anything.

[parmi93]

This raises another question: How do I pass one or more parameters (more complex than a ULONG) to a thread when creating it?
Do I really have to use a message queue?

[MaJerle]

You should cast your pointer to ULONG and retrieve it back. This you can do.
It is a generic issue for OS, not linked to threadx IMO.

[parmi93]

As far as I know in C there is no guarantee that an unsigned long can be converted to void * and vice versa.
There are platforms out there where the size of a pointer is larger than an unsigned long.
Also (I'm not 100% sure about this), could pointers and integers have a different representation in memory?

[MaJerle]

As far as I know in C there is no guarantee that an unsigned long can be converted to void * and vice versa. There are platforms out there where the size of a pointer is larger than an unsigned long. Also (I'm not 100% sure about this), could pointers and integers have a different representation in memory?

As stated above, in general you are right, but if you system is 32-bits, then void* and ULONG are of the same type, so you are good to go.

[parmi93]

I think the "32-bit system" requirement is not enough to ensure safe conversion from void* to ULONG (and vice versa).
There are 32-bit architectures like, Intel Architecture 32-bit (commonly called i386), where addresses are 6 bytes (2 bytes segment number and 4 bytes offset within the segment).

I'm writing a code (portable across different platforms) where I need to pass multiple parameters to a thread during its creation, I guess I'm not the first to encounter this problem, what mechanism has ThreadX implemented to be able to do this?

[MaJerle]

Then the best proposal is to start the thread passing the data index and retrieving the data by:

void* get_thread_data(ULONG index) {
   return data_pointers[index];
}

void
thread_func(ULONG value) {
    void* data = get_thread_data(value);
}

[parmi93]

I guess (as you already mentioned in your first answer) this is the best solution, although I don't like the idea of ​​a global data_pointers.

[cypherbridge]

Hi we run across this often. The purpose of the formal parameter is to pass either a start code scalar integer, or alternatively an opaque pointer to a context structure. By convention ULONG is universal for 32 bit architectures and defined to be uint32_t, which also happens to be the size of a pointer. However on 64 bit machines the pointer will typically be allocated 8 bytes. For future updates it may be better to use stdint.h uintptr_t to pass an opaque pointer https://cplusplus.com/reference/cstdint/

[MaJerle]

IMHO It should be void* and nothing else. Everything else is a workaround of a bad design.

[parmi93]

@cypherbridge As tx_thread_create() is currently designed, the input parameter is meant to accept only an integer, you should not pass an opaque pointer, because (as I mentioned before) there are 32-bit architectures out there, where the ULONG is 32-bit and pointers are 48-bit (which is perfectly legal for the C standard).

So the condition that must be satisfied in order to pass pointers is: sizeof(ULONG) >= sizeof(void *), the "32-bit architecture" condition is not sufficient, which in turn raises another question, what defines a 32-bit architecture? register size? address bus width? ALU size? something else? is there really a standard out there that defines what a 32-bit architecture is?

In any case, why uintptr_t and not a nice simple void *? which has been around since C was born, while uintptr_t has only existed since C99.
What advantages would it offer?

[hwmaier]

It think there seems to be consensus that changing it to a portable pointer type makes sense. Maybe @parmi93 could create a respective PR?

In the mean time the opaque pointer cast can be considered a workaround for 32-bit architectures. The segmented 48-bit pointer case is hypothetical as to my knowledge ThreadX presently does not support such an architecture.

[cypherbridge]

C99 defines uintptr_t is defined in such a way to transparently convert between a pointer and and scalar.
With the benefit of cross-platform code, 32bit 64 bit, whatever.
Its true that in some projects ThreadX is used in C89 compiler which predates uintptr_t so for that reason
void* is a better choice and additionally similar to FreeRTOS xTaskCreate()
It seems the only use case we are talking about is tx_thread_create(), is there anything else affected by this?
Do keep in mind that whatever we come up with has the potential for broad impact to the installed code base, documentation, and so on. So what is the the rationale to do it?

[hwmaier]

So what is the the rationale to do it?

I think the rationale is well explained by @parmi93 and I agree with the need for a mechanism to pass arbitrary context data to the thread in creation. This is common practise with all OS I have come across being it RTOSes or Linux or Windows and typically accomplished by passing a user defined pointer to the new thread. We are using this in our application as well and so far using the ULONG entry_input argument casted into from a pointer to a struct., but it would be better to change that to a void * pointer.

[hwmaier]

And I agree this would be a breaking change, but sometimes in order to move forward you have to leave lagacy stuff behind. A ULONG was find when the world embraced 32-bit 20 years ago but now we have micros entering the 64-bit realm.

[agrutter]

Looks like tx_timer_create have a similar mechanism using a ULONG for its expiration_function id paramater and for its expiration_input. I feel like these could be VOID * also. Alex Grutter Engineer Future Designs, Inc. 996 A Cleaner Way SW Huntsville, AL 35805 Mobile: (256) 609-8767 Phone: (256) 883-1240 ext. 34 Fax: (256) 883-1241 From: cypherbridge ***@***.***> Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2024 7:05 PM To: eclipse-threadx/threadx ***@***.***> Cc: Subscribed ***@***.***> Subject: Re: [eclipse-threadx/threadx] Why ThreadX entry function use `ULONG` as entry input instead of a `void *`? (Issue #413) C99 defines uintptr_t is defined in such a way to transparently convert between a pointer and and scalar. With the benefit of cross-platform code, 32bit 64 bit, whatever. Its true that in some projects ThreadX is used in C89 compiler which predates uintptr_t so for that reason void* is a better choice and additionally similar to FreeRTOS xTaskCreate() It seems the only use case we are talking about is tx_thread_create(), is there anything else affected by this? Do keep in mind that whatever we come up with has the potential for broad impact to the installed code base, documentation, and so on. So what is the the rationale to do it? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<#413 (comment)>, or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AIBCG7ON34AOSKYZCHQZUKLZZXLRBAVCNFSM6AAAAABPF5CULWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDGOJSGUZTKOBRGU>. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.******@***.***>>

[parmi93]

C99 defines uintptr_t is defined in such a way to transparently convert between a pointer and and scalar.

I don't understand why ThreadX needs to bother allowing the user to convert a pointer to a scalar?

If entry_input had been a void * users would still have had the option to convert it to a uintptr_t later in entry_function() if they needed to.

Its true that in some projects ThreadX is used in C89 compiler which predates uintptr_t

I would also like to add that the uintptr_t type is optional in the c99 standard, and is still optional in the new c23 standard, so there might be some "modern compilers" that don't support uintptr_t at all.
https://port70.net/%7Ensz/c/c99/n1256.html#7.18.1.4

In any case I wasn't suggesting changing tx_thread_create(), I just wanted to understand why a ULONG was used instead of a void *, changing tx_thread_create() would break backwards compatibility (regardless of whether you use void * or uintptr_t).

I would recommend adding a new tx_thread_create2() that supports void *, leaving the old tx_thread_create() intact.

[MaJerle]

I would recommend adding a new tx_thread_create2() that supports void *, leaving the old tx_thread_create() intact.

Or a threadx options where user can define the parameter type.

[parmi93]

Or a threadx options where user can define the parameter type.

This solution is even better, because it would not change the size of the program (binary) for those who want to continue using ULONG, the only thing users should be careful about is not using this option inappropriately, for example by defining the entry_input type as a giant struct, because this will be copied into the thread control block. But I guess we can't protect users from themselves.

[hwmaier]

I like the option of being able to configure the type of entry_input, probably using a #define. This could default to ULONG and no backward compatibility issue arises then. Users can change it to be a VOID* or a struct ptr. Likewise the same could be done for the timer.

Having a second tx_thread_create2() with a new signature seems less ideal as more data needs to be added to the TX_THREAD_STRUCT structure and the the thread start code in _tx_thread_shell_entry() has to check which entry function to use, the old signature or the new signature. But its doable as well.

[xray-bit]

A pointer points to an address of memory. The address of the memory is also a ULONG-compatible type.

[MaJerle]

A pointer points to an address of memory. The address of the memory is also a ULONG-compatible type.

Not the case.

[parmi93]

The address of the memory is also a ULONG-compatible type.

This is not true, please read the entire discussion above.