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Meeting10.04.2017
Jason, Jesse, Richard, Charles, Bruce
Sina
- Jesse: to put URL in either the google Doc / Sheet of this example
- Jason: I will update the analysis document on the wiki about this.
- Charles: Add Richard to D&D group's Members Page
- Charles: schedule next meeting Oct 18 @ 11AM
Jason: updated the analysis document waiting for Sina to review.
Jesse: what is the goals for this document.
Jason: Analysis document will feed into the deliverables analyst the problem, understand the issues are what this group will address. classifying what the a11y req. are and how those can be met. Kind of document to form the basis for implementers.
Jason: the google sheet is trying to identify what we have good examples for and what we don't and a11y examples and what we don't.
Jesse: IOS examples are good and this is why we have them?
Charles: Yes.
Jason: more examples of what is been done. We were looking at classifying them the more complex examples and trying to complete and what would give rise to a11y challenges. we were in the midst of doing that.
Charles: Yes we were writing that, and then switched to the sheet and looking for good examples of those.
Jason: are there any more which we didn't have last time. Some of the harder cases source to destination path is difficult or # of source / destination targets, and trying to come up with known examples of those especially in education.
Charles: we can either come up with these here or reach out to the greater community.
Jason: if we have examples we can do that now but I don't.
Jesse: I have one complex sim called Area Builder - bucket of squares large 2D grid 8x15 drag them anywhere in the grid to build up geometry. Area changes and countable with the square. # of drop locations are quite large.
Jesse: ACTION to put URL in either the google Doc / Sheet of this example
Jason: could use ARIA Grid roles potentially. requires you to have a specific widget at the destinations, keyboard a11y the only problem is the # of movement operations that the user would have to take to get drop location.
Richard: would this build down to a Table?
Jason: work well on a touch device.
Bruce: distinction something to move in a NSEW vs. a free move
Jesse: split apart into a 2D grid this gets simplified to NSEW movements.
Jason: you can get to any point in x/y.
Jesse: you can drop it anywhere but it will snap to the largest contiguous set of blocks.
Charles: So now you have a drop action then a move automatically and report back to the user that it moved this.
Bruce: when the system drops in a place that wasn't intended to drop it.
Bruce: in a Phet sim with electron orbits and that are full the electron could move quite far from where it was originally dropped. Where you drop an electron and an animation might take over a move that electron 3 or 4 inches away and could be multiple shells away. You drag to inner most and it may drop it to the other side of the atom. BOAR / Cloud model of the atom, drag and intended drop but where it ends up sometimes it will be close and fall into a grid location but could be quite far. In the phet sims and drop into a out of bounds location it moves it back to the bucket.
Jason: additional cases which can complicate the a11y situation. Screen Reader interactions you won't get the visual feedback of where it landed. We may have an additional set of issues to document.
Bruce: End of interaction that the system does. Related, if there is slot place where you can drop something in and you drop it close but not quite and the system doesn't pull it in, the final micro adjustment
Richard: A square can be moved around and if you are close it can fit it in there and could do like a magnetic field to it of sorts. Dragging it is only part of the story. You could flip it. on a screen common is to rotate.
Charles: a Jigsaw puzzle would be an example.
Richard: Similar to Scratch where it is nearby it will snap it in.
Jason: you are changing the destination after the fact and we need to notification / AT to the user to inform them of this. This could get really confusing very quickly. Some cases this might not matter but if it is really moving it into a different slot then the user would be on the point where they requested the drop and it won't be there. Solution is is well known, but we need to make it obvious and make the case.
ACTION: Jason I will update the analysis document on the wiki about this.
What the notification should tell the user would be application specific.
Magnification only see part of the plane that it would disappear from them
Charles: I would hope that the animation to move with the item be dragged.
Jason: if you choose the object and then to destination
Charles: When there is a path the user has control of then the focus stays with the item, otherwise the focus is either in the source or to the destination once the source target is chosen.
Jason: Animating the movement is a good idea, and you have a large # of these and you drop something and it re-appeared somewhere else that animating it might be a good practice. but we will have to see.
Once we are confident of the D&D options we know about but we can reach out to others in this field to ask for more examples.
Charles: IOS 11 advancement in Drag and Drop of icons on the screen
Jason: we don't have good examples for possible examples we can work on, but maybe
Charles: so creating an example where you drop
Jason: where the path matters
Charles: what about a Maze situation.
Jason: raises that the assumption that there is a single drop operations that you have multiple objects that you are going to drop them all at the same point, but if there is an ability to drop them one at a time or a at different points that is interesting. Does this violate any of our assumptions?
Charles: adventure game where you pick up multiple objects and use them at different times but not sure if this is a drag and drop operations.
Jason: wonders, should we literature search sources of examples before we consider this complete?
Jesse: some basic searches only the basic D&D operations are even mentioned and ARIA is being deprecated.
Jason: only some of these would be descriptions on how the actions are and its affects but that is on a specific application, and wouldn't know how to find this.
Jesse: I think we could all do some searching and see if we can find more examples.
Jason: we could get our documentation together then ask for a formal review to find additional cases and comments.
Charles: if we could all just fill out this spreadsheet and email the list if you have any issues.
Richard: I think sometimes its a vision issue and sometimes its a mobility issue. I was in power point and wanted to rotate an arrow to get the right # of degrees but various tedious, depending on the disability different solutions, so that would be different rows.
Jason: Target Size is an issue so a person with fine motor control this is difficult, so they are recommending minimum sizes for GUI targets.
Richard: there is a lot of research on this and interaction and one strategy is if someone is moving in that direction and hovering that the target gets larger.
Charles: Suggests next meeting on Oct 18th.
ACTION: Charles Add Richard to D&D group mailing list ACTION: Charles: schedule next meeting Oct 18 @ 11AM